Reviewed in the United Kingdom on September 26, 2014. I mean coming from an oral culture, you being under oppresion by the roman empire, out the 4 two were disciples and one was an aducated physician (Luke), good friend of Paul, author of the epistles to the church, (I'm positive you already knew that) and of course Mark, not an apostle. why can't a person say that the bible was written long after the life of this man, there are multiple unknown authors, many of the passages in the bible today are not in the earliest writings, not all the books even claim to be first hand accounts, we know the NT has been translated many times, we have no original copies, the writings contradict each other/history and logic and much of the NT requires interpretation? What kind of parties do you have? It is too vague a time to make too sweeping a statement. until there is a first hand source I'll remain a skeptic. Jesus wasn't real, it's missing because they never wrote this part of the story, just people making up more crap to fill in the gaps. Everything else was written around 60CE - there were no fact checkers or internet back then so no one could check what really happened when they wrote !! And Yes we all need a savior, We all do. YES, HE IS. Why is the head of the family named Joseph? Matthew - 80-100 Its based on evidence, and hard, 'no faith required' facts. They may be completely different behind the scenes. Now once again, the reason we don't have contemporary writings on him is because he was one of many minnows in a big pond. The Jews were and are still known as the People of the Book. One dimensional thinking can restrict one from a true understanding of the complexities of history and current events. Everything that was ever written about a Messiah Jesus was written well after the time he was supposed to have lived. It's at least a good beginning. Just a thought for you. You could do yourself a favor, and get a copy of 'Misquoting Jesus' by Dr. B. Ehrman. "consensus'' is this a 'USAmericanism' such as 'license' and 'color'. So, would you think Jesus had Jimmy Swaggart charisma or Bette Davis charisma? Ancient Teaching for today's world. If you meant the Gospels, why didn't you simply say so rather than employ the circumlocution "the books in question." And just how does this render Tacitus tenuous? Was a child qualified to declare 'The Emperor has no clothes'. If what Ehrman says in his book is about Carrier and not Carrier's arguments, I'm not interested in personal insults. I was not to tell no one of my Fathers private affairs. "But Bart Erhman says..." Erhman CHOOSES to believe. When the Old Testament was translated into Greek (the Septuagint), for some reason, the word "almah" got translated as "parthenos," meaning virgin--and thus the idiotic doctrine of virgin birth with all its later trappings. Just where does it tell us this and just how does it relate to an alleged code. You must not have had any Jews working on this video, since any Jew would know that. IF you're correct, then yours is the only God. The sun appears walking on water at the end of the day on a lake. So if you don't accept his teachings, or that he did miracles, or anything else, why are you so butthurt when other people don't agree that he existed? Reviewed in the United States on January 3, 2018. Serious. -Did Jesus carry the cross up the mount by himself, or did he get help from Simon of Cyrene? 3rd edit: and I've read the Nag Hammadi texts as well. Sit shut your mouth for once, read and watch as the world unfolds infront of your eyes how precise everything is, how God knows exactly who we are and what we are, the spiritual prostitutes that we ALL are. A common assumption amongst Christians is that Jesus simply lived in Nazareth during that period, but there are various accounts that present other scenarios, including travels to India. The bible is a very misunderstood beast and most of it is in code. You haven't provided one shred of evidence, only bald assertions, mostly erroneous, mostly ignorant. No, we have no "recordings" of what he said, only a lot of contradictory hearsay written long after the fact. Most people gravitate towards biblical studies because they want to learn more about their Lord and Savior -- that's the reason Erhman himself first went into the field (though he now seems to consider himself agnostic) -- and they almost always have a predetermined agenda about Jesus. Almost as messy as the Jesus of theological belief. The Gospels record Jesus age 12 in the temple, then age 30 at the river Jordan. 150CE, Jesus is quoted as saying "My wife....". How and where do they differ from later manuscripts? Read some of these comments and it was hard just keeping up with all the "politics". You also have to accept, like many of the early christians, that the real founder of what would become todays pagan christianity is James the Just. Always used by undercover christians for apologetic reasons. Has a comfy feel. I guess I was looking in the wrong places. From everything you've written, you're the screwball. Again it's your claim, your burden of proof. You included. Reviewed in the United Kingdom on October 30, 2017, Reviewed in the United Kingdom on May 26, 2017, Reviewed in the United Kingdom on May 4, 2016, Reviewed in the United Kingdom on November 27, 2015. I see, well God could of done that too, but he chose to let us live and give us life. Please try again. When the scholars admit that the best candidate for the title "historical Christ" is James the Just I´ll start taking them seriously. Its your claim, your burden of proof. Wish I had it....over other ones except intellect. I'm getting it directly from John allegro - the one maverick member of the translation team that actually tried to get the stuff translated rather than burying it as the other catholic interpreters managed to do for over 50 years. if you mean the New Testament canon, you have some serious rethinking, for it was compiled by Athanasius in 367, after the events you describe. You might want to read what Bart Ehrman has to say about Mr. Carrier in "Did Jesus Exist?". if you watch this and take it seriously, i defy you to research any particular tidbit that the producers felt important enough to repeat 3x. I disagree. BTW, if you ask yourself why they never came forward with this, meaning the monasteries, look no further than what Notovich said. Was it Mary by herself, or with other women? There's a fine article on Wikipedia--not that you'll go to it. For your information, the earliest mention of Jesus is on an ossuary dated 63AD. Faulty logic with your 'living a lie would make you miserable' claim as well. In short, you are completely unschooled in historical/biblical scholarship or for that matter any type of historical scholarship, considering your inability to understand the difference between historical claims and theological ones, and have no business making any claims period. The prophecy contained in Isaiah 7:14 uses the workd "almah," meaning young woman, not "bethulah" meaning virgin. Luke - 80-130 I would just shake my head and leave. The Egyptian , Sumerian ,Mayan , Aztec , Buddhist and Hindu all did it well with rock or writing that is there for us to read . It's not god or Jesus you're attacking, in their mind, it's something far more precious, it's their very self. And you know I too had a hard time going throught the old testament, or the tanakh, as is called. I know they're not all what you think and claim, so don't talk to me about that here Alex. ISBN 978-0-916766-87-0. ×. Could you rewrite my life? And Shakespeare would have probably gotten along linguistically quite well with denizens of the Ozarks--and no, if you read the history, it is not counterintuitive. Kennedy could work a crowd. why do you even care what I, or anyone else here thinks? We work hard to protect your security and privacy. How much did Jesus say at his 'trial'? The early christians (gnostics) manipulated and still manipulate information to make christianity more believable. Meanwhile a rational analysis will demonstrate that both social camps are based in personal power (growing proselytes) rather than about the subject matter and its resolution. No real direct proof, but the short span of time that this cult grew after his alleged death and the context in which he lived and died, makes his existence as a man highly plausible. None of the ancient secular authors mentions anything that confirms the theological beliefs you present. The Lost Years of Jesus - Pocketbook: Documentary Evidence of Jesus' 17-Year Journey to the East Paperback – Import, 1 January 1998 by Elizabeth Clare Prophet (Author) › Visit … When I first started reading this book I was very skeptical. The believer will accept it as truth, the skeptic will reject it as false, the videographer will use it to make money off the believe and the skeptic. This, and more from Josephus books, found it´s way into the gospels when they were written during the second and third century. Please try again. . Guess who had charisma! Bring your club to Amazon Book Clubs, start a new book club and invite your friends to join, or find a club that’s right for you for free. Josephus - he was born 4 years after jesus died and started writing about Jesus after 66 CE - and the gospels are dated at 60 CE. The first 10 or 15 minutes are spent listening to a number of people, including the narrator, state over and over again that nothing is known about the life of "Jesus" from ages 12-18, accompanied by re-enactments--or perhaps it's the other way around. Your assertion that none of the secular authors I've mentioned holds any information to support the existence of "Jesus'" ministry and the crucifixtion displays an ignorance not only of these sources but of the relevant portions of the bible and how these sources relate to them and vice versa. The idea of selling an unproven historical Jesus by refering to mainstream biblical scholars without any arguments whatsoever for the product they are selling is like a person without a ticket waiting for a train that never comes. Has there been misenterpreations, greed, fallacy, ignorance, all those things, yes. Nowadays, one also has to come across well onscreen. When we put the secular sources under a microscope and examine what they really say, they actually say something quite different than what christian apologetics wants you to belive. Jesus approaching Ladakh as a youth Oil painting by J. Michael Spooner The Best of the Sons of Men; Ancient scrolls reveal that Jesus spent seventeen years … But then again an assumption not based on actuality, nor because national geographic says so. Please give due credit to his publicists. It's the same problem with Gibbon who let his hatred of Christianity color his scholarship--and accidentally producing a beautifully-written work of literature. Guaranteed to be a transformative read. I just wanted to save myself a little effort. Are you familiar with the protogospels, not that they're any more believable than the canon? The reason I ask most of the comments have nothing to do with the video shown but assumptions for the sake of arguments. Yes, 4 people might witness something and have different points of view when re-telling it later. There is ample evidence for those real people, unlike your deity claims, and whether you think they were misguided or not doesn't negate their sacrifice for you and yours, and YOU have enjoyed the benefits they gave up. Issa's teachings and raise to prominence among Jewish brethren is described in chapter 9-12. And you can look to ancient Egypt for most of it and Sumeria for the rest. !AFTER THE FACT!!! We have only one source for Apollonius of Tyana. You have not provided one piece of hard evidence to support your contention of the existence biblical codes. You didn't even look at the evidence I suggested, just banged on with your exact same preaching and excuses regardless of its very real and revealing problems that were brought up. He said to me, do not be afraid to leave you're family while being a child. 2. And studied in communal oral studies, due to the fact there were not very many scrolls running around with the scriptures in them, house churches they were called. Perhaps that is what you do with the rest of the secular sources you mention too? What exactly do we know about this Jesus the man, so we can be sure he was a real person? The Babylonians obviously copped theirs from the Sumerian so it's all derivative really. If you're a seller, Fulfillment by Amazon can help you grow your business. They are not, as you claim, the same with slight differing viewpoints, they are different accounts that, (here's the important bit Alex, try to keep up), that are mutually exclusive. Tacitus - born AD 56 - is the best, but again he was a second hand source that had access to the text already written. I'm still waiting for you to retract your charge of my being a creationist. I looked. Even a cursory examination of your claim shows you are wrong. There is a blank space in the record that covers eighteen years in the life of Christ (from age 12 to 30). By claiming that mainstream biblical scholarship confirms that the "Jesus" of the gospels never existed, you are the ignorant one and a liar to boot. As is one of the questions it brings up- why are there such huge gaps in the narrative? I call you ignorant because you persist on terming the consensus of biblical scholars with far more education and a deeper understanding of their subject than you theological. "and don't try to pretend that you do; I and anybody reading your posts know that you don't, that you don't want to and that you'd rather lie about it.". A person's deeds (accomplishments) are one thing; proof of his existence is another--and the two have nothing to do with each other. The Lost Years of Jesus: Documentary Evidence of Jesus' 17-year Journey to the East. I was filled with the holy spirit and Jesus spoke to me and told me I did not want you to live the way I had lived, selling drugs. When you have some, please get back to me. Take from it what you will. Also, as life is too short for an in-depth study of everything, Wikipedia does serve a purpose. Not let my 'rule book' be what it is, an inconsistent load of rubbish mixed in with the odd truthful bit to try to maintain some sort of credibility. The consensus of biblical scholars who, once again, have no hidden agenda, is that there was a man named "Jesus" at the time in question, an apocalpytic preacher who was baptized and crucified--and I go with the consensus as to the existence of the historical "Jesus" AS A MAN and only AS A MAN, especially in light of reliable though serotinous historians such as Suetonius, Pliny and Tacitus who wrote only a snippet or two about him (when it comes to "Jesus," I take Josephus with a grain of salt.).
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